並前往https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/%E8%81%BD%E8%B3%93%E7%8B%97%E5%AD%B8%E8%8B%B1%E6%96%87/%E4%BC%B4%E4%BE%B6%E9%97%9C%E4%BF%82%E7%9A%84%E8%8B%B1%E6%96%87-%E6%9D%B1%E4%BA%AC%E5%90%91%E5%90%8C%E5%A9%9A%E9%82%81%E9%80%B2-YgixC2OK8J1/