並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/ep-72-%E6%8B%92%E7%B5%95%E6%8E%A5%E7%8F%AD%E5%BE%8C%E7%9A%84%E4%BB%96-%E6%89%93%E9%80%A0%E5%8F%B0%E7%81%A3%E9%AB%98%E8%B3%AA%E6%84%9F%E5%B1%85%E5%AE%B6%E7%BE%8E%E5%AD%B8%E5%93%81%E7%89%8C-aj2-%E5%89%B5%E8%BE%A6%E4%BA%BA-%E8%94%A1%E9%81%A9%E5%AE%87-kevin-tsai/id1516229812?i=1000531656491